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I stayed up too late last night posting on an anti-RIC FB page. I didn't think I was arguing, but the moderator seemed to think it was. The general gist is that they posted a link to a poll someone had made saying 'Do you prefer the look of a circumcised or uncircumcised penis?'. I thought that was pretty awful. If you assume that most people who oppose circumcision consider it to be mutilation, and most people who are pro-circumcision consider the foreskin to be a birth defect, HOW is it fair to claim one or the other is ugly? Change the word circumcision to 'cleft lip' (as an example of a birth defect, talking merely of looks), and you've just given your opinion on how ugly a person is. Nice. Not only that, but it's hypocritical for someone anti-RIC to talk about preference of how it looks, because, when someone says they did it for aesthetic reasons (preference, to look like Dad etc), everybody's all over it saying "That's a terrible reason to do it". So what. The. Shit.

Anyway, they said they'll continue to post links to such polls. Yes, yes, let's call all men ugly because we have differing opinions. UGH!

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Date: Tuesday, December 6th, 2011 22:24 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
Is it just me who doesn't give a fuck? I mean, if a man is or not. I wildly oppose non-medical circumcision. I don't understand why you'd look at a cock and think 'ew, foreskin'.

Date: Tuesday, December 6th, 2011 22:39 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
If I was faced (!) with a circumcised penis I'd think 'I hope that wasn't done without your permission', but I wouldn't ever tell the person that it looked bad! Imagine they replied, 'my parents thought it looked better'. Then you say, 'looks shouldn't matter'. Uhhhh, wut?

That person started talking about a circumcised penis being painful for women during sex (I wouldn't know, but it's commonly said), but that was NOT the question; it was about aesthetics only. The silly moo.

Date: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011 10:58 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
I don't even think I'd react.
My sister's had sex with both. She says: very little difference

Date: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011 11:07 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
Really? I've never seen one in the flesh! And I've seen 6. Not including my Dad, who I have NO idea about.

Date: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011 11:25 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
I've not seen one, though my older brother was circ'd as a child for phimosis. Jiff's been done for peyronie's and phimosis. Tom's got a very short foreskin but it appears to be natural rather than surgical. I haven't outright asked lest he never speak to me again.

Date: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011 15:13 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
Phimosis is common until well after puberty when it starts to separate from the head. My ex had it. I didn't know better at the time, but he was only 17 so it had plenty of time to change. He might still have it now, but the overwhelming odds are that he doesn't. People use it as an excuse to get their kids cut. Adults, that's a different kettle of fish entirely if it's causing them an issue. Up to them I say, as long as they know the facts.

WHY do you know the cockular status of your ex BIL?! I have no idea about my BILs. I do not ever want to. Ever. EVER.

Yeah, probably best not to ask. "So... your foreskin".

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 11:08 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
Yeah, Daniel had it bad - it ballooned up when he was a slash. I'd have the boys cut if it was surgically recommended, I'll be honest. I went to school with a guy who had a circumcision at puberty and it went wrong and he couldn't spunk from sex.
I know about Jiff because we SHARE EVERYTHING. He had his as part of the treatment for peyronie's. He had his during puberty and said all of a sudden, it was SO sensitive ALL of the time and caused many an unwanted boner.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 11:33 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
That's normal too. I'd get it done as a child (not a baby in nappies) if it was affecting his quality of life at that point and if NO other option was working. But that is actually not at all likely. I can count on one hand the amount of hypospadias sets I packed at sterile services (they used those for adult - as well as hypospadias - because there was no point having a designated circ set). It's still something which people consider to be nothing as, in an adult, it's generally a minor operation. But it's there for a reason and most 'problems' actually aren't- they're normal, supposed to happen and it's just that even in the UK we haven't got a *very* long history of having entirely intact boys and men.

Don't all pubescent boys get unwanted erections? I wouldn't know personally (obv!) but remember hearing many a tale at school and college. I think there's a world of difference between a teenager consenting to something and a young child who can't. I don't know about peyronie's, I'll google it!

Not sure I can read Jiff's tweets without thinking 'I know what your cock looks like' :D

Anyway, this wasn't supposed to be an anti-circ rant (got people on my flist who circed thee babies and I dont want them to think I'm getting at them), just that judging people on looks that they can't change is horrible.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 18:28 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
It's quite rare for the NHS to do them routinely these days. I think Dan's was done in 1988, coz I was just old enough to be terrified of the clowns on his bedcurtains. He would have been 9, so not especially young.
Work hardly ever referred anyone for them - the watchful waiting policy is definitely preferred in male urology for most things. We had a few older men have it done, but very few children, aside from the two religious cases which were done privately in Brum.
Like, when Jimmy had hydrocele and they thought it was a hernia, instead of just going knives in to his groin, they made us wait and lo! It healeth!

They do indeed, but this was MORE SO. Peyronie's means it is angled a-wrong.

HA! How do you think I FEEL?

I don't think there is the same circumcision culture in the UK than the US and from people I've spoken to (and the limiting nature of the NHS), I don't think it's likely to become as commonplace here.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 18:35 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
In Birmingham? What, they sent them all the way here? I guess it's better to have them done in hospital than to have, for Jews, a Mohel suck the child's penis (it's not abuse though, 'cause it's religion).

I had a look at Peyronie's. Mmm. Looks, um, awkward!

Yeah, you have to look him in the eyes. I like Jiff though. I wouldn't mind marrying him.

No, I think that sounds about right. The NHS is never going to pay for that which isn't felt to be absolutely necessary. This is a good thing in all sorts of cases!

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 18:40 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
I don't know why Birmingham. They were all muslims, and it was done by a doctor, but not in a hospital. We get sent a little note to say it's been done by whoever does it.

I love Jiff. I don't think I could marry him. He plays WoW.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 18:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
A doctor, or a surgeon? Seems odd, but at least it probably wasn't done by someone without any training at all at the Mosque or at home.

I can overlook that.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 18:52 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
It may well be done at home, but it's done by a qualified person. I see no problem with doing it at home, if you're going to have it done, provided it's done by someone qualified with sterilised equipment. It's no different to delivering at home.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 19:05 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
No, but they're not always qualified :/ Although they obviously were in this case. And went to the effort of having in done in Brum, for some reason! Maybe they wanted to see the sights afterwards.

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 19:51 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dexypunk.livejournal.com
I don't know for certain. There are two mosques in Peterborough, none in King's Lynn. Maybe they don't have the right staff. Religion or no, surely not that many parents are cool with anyone chopping bits off their kids?

Date: Thursday, December 8th, 2011 21:34 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
Maybe. I'd have thought there'd be somewhere nearer though. Never mind!

Eh, I think you'd be surprised. Can't really blame them though when they're bombarded with false information. Not in the UK though. The NHS rocks.

Date: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011 07:43 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] derekthelamb.livejournal.com
I enjoy the idea that the ring around Saturn is Jesus' foreskin. Magical.

Date: Wednesday, December 7th, 2011 08:16 (UTC)
From: [identity profile] snapdragon-666.livejournal.com
Ew! Where'd you get that from?

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